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    Bodyweight Fitness: BWF Daily Discussion and Beginner/RR Questions Thread for 2020-12-26

    Bodyweight Fitness: BWF Daily Discussion and Beginner/RR Questions Thread for 2020-12-26


    BWF Daily Discussion and Beginner/RR Questions Thread for 2020-12-26

    Posted: 25 Dec 2020 10:05 PM PST

    Welcome to the /r/bodyweightfitness daily discussion thread!

    • Feel free to post beginner questions or just about anything that's on your mind related to fitness!

    Reminders:

    • Read the FAQ as your question may be answered there already.
    • If you're unsure how to start training, check out our Recommended Routine, or our more skills based routine: Move.
    • Even though the rules are relaxed here, asking for medical advice is still not allowed.

    For your reference we also have these weekly threads:

    Join our live conversations on Discord! We're also on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter!

    If you'd like to look at previous Discussion threads, click here.

    submitted by /u/AutoModerator
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    Happy Holidays /r/BWF! Our Gift to You: The BWF Primer Routine Technical Outline (+ only 1 week until the New Year's Primer Community Event!)

    Posted: 25 Dec 2020 12:46 PM PST

    Hey folks! Nick-E Here.

    This is just a post continuing to get the word out about the launch of the first of 5 routines we're coming out with in 2021 as an update/overhaul to the existing RR; the BWF Primer Routine!

    Now if you haven't seen last week's announcement, I'd strongly recommend you have a look through there, because it provides some important information about all this.

    Check it out here

    In the last post we outlined our plans for all 5 programs, but in this post, I'll be going into more of a deep dive on the BWF Primer, as it is on its way into general circulation in the New Year!

    As this routine is meant to be replacing a longstanding fixture of the subreddit, I will try to use this post to be as explicit about my reasoning and justifications for how the routine is structured and how it was made as possible.

    DISCLAIMER: THIS POST IS MORE FOR THE TECHNICALLY MINDED AND/OR THOSE EXPERIENCED WITH EXERCISE, FITNESS PROGRAMMING AND FITNESS TERMINOLOGY, AND EXISTS TO PROVIDE TRANSPARENCY ABOUT THE REASONING BEHIND THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE ROUTINE IN ITS CURRENT FORM.

    BEGINNERS NEED NOT READ THIS NOW TO UNDERSTAND THE PROGRAM. IF YOU ARE A BEGINNER, YOU CAN JUST WAIT TIL JAN 1st TO GET STARTED AND YOU CAN COME BACK AND READ THIS LATER ONCE YOU ARE WELL INTO THE ROUTINE IF YOU WANT TO!

    Ok, onto the content!

    The Making of the BWF Primer Routine:

    So in designing the BWF Primer Routine, a lot of thought went into both what people who are new to exercise need the most, and how to best deliver that information effectively.

    With those two things in mind, the following factors were held up as the goal for what the BWF Primer should achieve.

    1. The program should provide the tools to learn what proper form is for any given exercise, and enable the person performing the routine to self-evaluate their performance, and/or provide an avenue through which others with more experience can check form.
    2. The program should allow for individuals to get started with minimal barrier to entry, and weave in reading with actual practice. This will space out the (unfortunately necessary and) relatively large quantity of reading required to learn proper form and understanding of training programs, thus considerably flattening out the originally steep learning curve.
    3. The program should be structured in such a way to facilitate habit formation to help new exercisers get into the groove more easily.

    With respect to point #1, this is something that the RR already did, and many free online programs already do. However, the high priority of this point is one of the reasons why the previous RR and many other free 'learn it yourself' programs have had such a high barrier to entry for non exercise-savvy individuals. There's a lot to read, watch, and comprehend before you can even start the routine.

    Now some people find this absolutely trivial and can just sit down for an hour, read through all the material and get going on their first session. However, for many others this has proven to be a bit more of a difficult task and has resulted in feeling too overwhelmed and intimidated to start.

    This is where point #2 (and #3) comes in. The solution to this in the BWF Primer is a 14 day 'building period', where there is an activity and/or reading to do 6 days per week. The building period allows people to start without having to tackle the whole routine on Day 1. Additionally, the 6 day per week structure will help build consistency while also keeping the sessions short and sweet, atleast to begin with. This will be explained below in the routine outline.

    The BWF Primer Routine: Outline

    The purpose of the BWF Primer Routine is to take someone who has never exercised before/has not exercised very much before, and is not familiar with common exercises or principles of how exercise and training works, and get them to a minimally effective level of operation to start building strength and muscle.

    In completion of the routine, you should be able to understand roughly how and why workouts are structured the way that they are, and how that facilitates improvements in your fitness. You will also develop competence in a series of fundamental exercises.

    The exercises you should be able to competently and effectively do by the end of the routine are:

    1. Push-ups
    2. Horizontal Bodyweight Rows
    3. Squats
    4. Single Leg Glute Bridges
    5. Deadbugs
    6. Bird-dogs

    Push-ups and Rows are your main upper body exercises

    Squats and Glute Bridges are your main lower body exercises,

    and Deadbugs and Bird-dogs are your main core exercises.

    That list is also ordered in the most likely order that the exercises will be learnt.

    The BWF Primer Routine: Structure and Progression:

    STRUCTURE:

    The BWF Primer will start out with a 14 day building period (explained in the next section), building up to this workout shown below by the end of the 14 days, to be performed 3 times per week. (Ideally with one day of rest between each session, but if need be, you can do 2 sessions in a row. But not all 3)

    Exercise Sets and Rep ranges
    Deadbugs 3x10-20
    Birddogs 3x10-20
    Row Progression OR Reverse Corner Push-ups 3x5-12
    Pushup Progression 3x5-12
    Glute Bridge Progression 3x8-15
    Squat Progression 3x8-15

    ----

    PROGRESSION:

    ----

    All exercises should start out very easy, and you should be able to add 1 rep per set (up to 3 sets of the upper rep range, e.g. 12, 15 or 20 depending on the exercise) every session. If you hit a plateau in the first two weeks you've started too heavy. If you did start too heavy and stall (or fail) for more than 2 workouts in a row, drop 2 reps per set and continue with the old progression scheme. FOR EXAMPLE: If you fail to complete 3x9 two workouts in a row, you should go back down to 3x7 before progressing again.

    If the above scheme does not enable you to progress past a plateau, many other methods (far more sophisticated than this) exist that are outside the scope of this routine that can be investigated if you need them!

    ----

    END STATE:

    ----

    You should be able to perform:

    3x8 pushups

    3x8 horizontal rows (body parallel to the floor at the bottom of the movement)

    3x15 Squats

    and 3x15 Glute bridges

    all WITH GOOD FORM before moving on to the next program (For now, that will be the RR, but in future it will be the BWF Strength Foundation Routine). If you achieve one of these goals before reaching the rest, you may continue to progress in those exercises, or stay at that level and work on your form until all requisites are met.

    (SIDE NOTE: If you were doing corner reverse push-ups, you should acquire something to do rows on and continue on this program until you reach the row progression, progressing everything else in the meantime )

    ----

    ***A SIDE NOTE: RATIONALE FOR REP RANGES:**\*

    ----

    You may be wondering why the upper end rep ranges for this program are so high. There's a number of reasons:

    1. Due to the occasionally big jumps between progressions in BWF, its usually better in a program suited for the widest number of people to overestimate the level of strength needed to move on in a progression. If 8 reps of one progression JUST ABOUT gives you enough strength for 5 of the next (albeit maybe with not the best form), thats a needlessly rushed approach when alternatively building up to 12 reps in the former progression would allow for a comfortable acclimation to the next progression because it is well within your strength ability. In a way it sort of naturally periodizes the intensity of that progression rather than slamming your head into maximum intensity every single session.
    2. Working in a variety of rep ranges is important for too many reasons to go into, and too many beginner programs just slam people either with 5s, or with 5-8's.
    3. Specifically for the squats and glute bridge progressions, BWF leg work is inherently limited in scope due and so naturally to squeeze the most benefit out of it, you will need to work in higher rep ranges, because if you do not have access to weights then you will hit a ceiling extremely quickly. Therefore, it's much better to treat BWF leg work on the "pump"-ier side of the rep range continuum.

    14 Day Building Period

    The structure of the 14 day building period is shown below:

    Day Task Reading
    Day 1 Pushups Read about Push-up Form!
    Day 2 Pushups Some Brief Training Theory (TBD)
    Day 3 Pushups, Rows Read about Row Form!
    Day 4 Pushups, Rows Some Brief Training Theory (TBD)
    Day 5 Pushups, Rows, Glute Bridge Read about Glute Bridge Form!
    Day 6 Pushups, Rows, Glute Bridge Some Brief Training Theory (TBD)
    Day 7 REST! Catch up on any reading you may not have done, or not have had time to do in the last week
    Day 8 Pushups, Rows, Glute Bridge, Squat Read about Squat Form!
    Day 9 Pushups, Rows, Glute Bridge, Squat Some Brief Training Theory (TBD)
    Day 10 Deadbug, Pushups, Rows, Glute Bridge, Squat Read about Deadbug Form!
    Day 11 Deadbug, Pushups, Rows, Glute Bridge, Squat Some Brief Training Theory (TBD)
    Day 12 Birddog, Deadbug, Pushups, Rows, Glute Bridge, Squat Read about Birddog Form!
    Day 13 Birddog, Deadbug, Pushups, Rows, Glute Bridge, Squat Some Brief Training Theory (TBD)
    Day 14 REST! Catch up on any reading you may not have done, or not have had time to do in the last week

    ----

    ***SIDE NOTE: TOTAL VOLUME OF THE BUILD-UP PERIOD**\*

    ----

    Yet again you might be thinking to yourself:

    "But Nick! How could you! Beginners shouldn't train 6x a week, beginners should train 3x per week! 6x per week is far too much volume for our poor beginners and they will surely die a fiery death from:

    O V E R T R A I N I N G! ! ! ! ! ! "

    If they were doing the full volume workout 6x per week, yes. That would certainly be likely to exceed the recovery capacity of a beginner athlete.

    However:

    1. The volume of each session will be reduced as exercises are added to ensure the weekly volume stays at a manageable level, and generally around the volume of the full routine (The current RR, for example, is 81 weekly working sets. The full BWF Primer is 54 sets of sub-max work. Week 1 will be around 45 sets, and week two will be 60. Of very sub-maximal form work mostly. There is zero chance of exceeding your recovery capacity as a beginner if you work in the guideline intensity)
    2. The intensity of this routine is meant to be low for the 14 day build-up. The intensity of the sets are not meaningfully high enough to impact your recovery in this period because the purpose of this period is learning, not really pushing yourself and trying to make huge gains.

    The End.

    So that's the BWF Primer as I've got it developed so far in readiness for the New Year!

    There's still some finishing touches to go before it's ready, and it will likely continue to be developed to smooth out any rough edges (all programs have them when they are transferred from the perfect, lab-like ideal conditions in someone's brain to the wild and wacky real world), but the goal is to get it to a minimally effective state by New Year's so the first cohort of people going through the first 14 day build-up Community Workout will get a good experience!

    If you've made it this far, thanks for reading :)

    If you are experienced enough with fitness and exercise that you perfectly understood all that and would like to be a helpful member of the /r/bodyweightfitness community, you should join the Discord server and opt-in to the 'Newbie Helper' role, to help get ready for the New Year's Rush, as beginners will be joining during the community event to ask questions! https://discord.gg/5MsaChT3YF

    Cheers,

    Nick-E

    submitted by /u/Captain_Nachos
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    I'm pretty confused about the place of the new primer. Is it only for total beginners?

    Posted: 26 Dec 2020 08:45 AM PST

    I've been using the RR for about a month but I'm still not at real pushups or pullups. I've read the entire post, but I can't figure out if the new primer would be for me.

    submitted by /u/DigVast
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    What routine to follow if I have this park to myself?

    Posted: 26 Dec 2020 04:19 AM PST

    Hey guys, bit of background: I'm average build. Got a bit of fat that is like to burn (can I do some cardio?) and have been going to the gym for an year now on and off but not much of a muscle growth.

    My main goal is muscle definition. I found this calisthenics park right next to my place and literally noone uses it.

    What routine can I follow considering that I've never trained calisthenics before? I also supplement protein though whey if that helps.

    submitted by /u/BinaryGandalf
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    How to train for a static squat record?

    Posted: 26 Dec 2020 08:15 AM PST

    So my work are running some fitness competitions across various disciplines and among them is one for the longest held static squat. Not a wall sit - a freestanding static squat.

    I am determined to win this and the £50 on offer! Apart from actually holding the longest squat I can every day and progressing longer and longer, what kind of training/exercises would be most beneficial for undertaking an isometric challenge like this?

    submitted by /u/Dalecoop87
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    Is it normal to have imbalances that are small enough so that others don't notice it, but I notice them a lot?

    Posted: 26 Dec 2020 03:30 AM PST

    For example my left pec is smaller than the right, while my left front delt is larger than my right. And my left 'oblique line' is much less defined than my right one. My right leg also seems to be slightly weaker than the left one. Etc...

    submitted by /u/The_Godlike_Zeus
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    Can i do 10 reps max instead of 8 reps max in the recommended routine?

    Posted: 26 Dec 2020 09:03 AM PST

    I have quite some questions, i was also wondering if i can do 4 days a week instead of 3 (i want to be more active), can i also know if dead bugs are better than Pike Compressions for anti-extension? really need responses fast to get this routine going, Thank you!
    (I am talking about the recommended routine sorry for the confusion)

    submitted by /u/xCoolRyder
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    Pushups and winged scapula; I cant get my scapula in right position

    Posted: 26 Dec 2020 09:51 AM PST

    No matter how hard I try my scapula wings when lowering myself down in a pushup.. Its like I have 0 control over my shoulderblades...

    Did anyone here have this issue? How did you fix it? Thanks!

    submitted by /u/vidtheVI
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    I’ve been afraid to cutting for years

    Posted: 26 Dec 2020 07:24 AM PST

    I am a strong, muscular, fatty guy. In march, my group training shut down because of corona and I sit at home since then. I went from a cool looking 82kg body to 98kg in couple months. I tried to cut when I was 82kg for more than a year, because I wanted to achieve six pack, but I was too afraid of losing muscle.

    Now my situation is just worsened and I am scared to death that if I cut down my calore intake, I'll lose my muscles in the process. It means a lot to me, I put in hard work in my strength and body. My training based mainly on bodyweight (80-90%), but after a level I needed to hit the gym for more gains.

    I hate my current overweight body, but risking my muscle for a fat loss journey which can be ruined in couple weeks, I just cant.

    How can you cope with this? How could I achieve lean, ripped, beast body mentally?

    I would prefer advices of guys with first or second-hand experience on the situation, thank you in advance!

    submitted by /u/miseature
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    Grip training

    Posted: 26 Dec 2020 03:04 AM PST

    Any bodyweight exercises/calisthenics for grip strengthening. Improve arm wrestling skills.

    submitted by /u/juicycheekoo
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    Are there any benefits to work planche on rings instead of on the floor?

    Posted: 26 Dec 2020 08:36 AM PST

    Hello,

    While doing a planche on rings is way harder than on the floor, I was wondering whether it could be more efficient/and injury free to work on rings while starting from scratch. I'm not stating any facts here, I don't have any experience on working on planche and I would like to start working on it in 2021 !

    What are your thoughts on this ?

    submitted by /u/Hr_Art
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    What is the best weight to start calisthenics ? My height is 171cms ( 5’7 feet ) and my weight is 76.5 kgs (168.6 lbs )

    Posted: 26 Dec 2020 09:44 AM PST

    Why has my ability to do pull-ups decreased so much?

    Posted: 26 Dec 2020 10:49 AM PST

    Hi all,

    I am having a bit of a strange situation.

    I was able to do 20+ clean pull-ups with ease.

    Now I am struggling to get 15.

    Why could this be happening?

    I have not changed really anything training wise that I can think of.

    submitted by /u/LionRunner554
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    Exercises/strategies to gain mass?

    Posted: 26 Dec 2020 10:43 AM PST

    I'm a pretty lanky dude, but I also have bad joints so need to stay away from heavy weights. I have no issue with body weight workouts, which I've been doing. What strategies can I use to gain mass? (I'm already decently cut) What are good workouts for gaining muscle volume? What strategies should I use as far as rep speed, rep/set count, rest time, etc? Thanks in advance!

    submitted by /u/Hanzburger
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    Is rest time that important ?

    Posted: 26 Dec 2020 05:23 AM PST

    I'm not so young anymore and with time, my rest pause went from 30" to 60", 90"... Now, 120"...

    Am i going to significant loss ?

    submitted by /u/Jim_Chaos
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    Routine for recovery without pulling on fingers

    Posted: 26 Dec 2020 12:42 AM PST

    Hi everyone, great community.

    I have been looking for a routine without pulling exercises which involve pulling by using your hands / fingers.

    I have overtrained in the past years and my tendons / finger muscles are strained / inflamed. Had a cyst in my finger. Have been to orthopedics and physical therapist, advice is rest. Have used deadlift straps in the past, but I would like to get finally healed before forcing it again and making it worse (it does get worse every time I pull).

    Training experience is: 2 years of boxing, 3 years of lifting + all sorts of classes like yoga, spinning, lots of HIIT and random running (those led to overtraining).

    So, cannot do pullups, deadlifts, rows, hanging leg rises and all those things.
    I can blow my mind with pushups, pistol squats, running and so on.

    I was reading it's unadvised to do the RR without rows or pullups

    In the past I did try to replace rows with some back widows / reversed elbow pushups, and pullups with these.

    My gym closed and for the past months I have just been running in the park with some random pushups / triceps. Would like to get back on a schedule.

    Is there some routine you advise?

    Keep up the great work and take care!

    submitted by /u/ClassicMagazine
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    Thoughs on my PPL routine?

    Posted: 26 Dec 2020 11:34 AM PST

    Day 1, pull: Australian pullup (2 × 20)

    Inverted row (3 × 10)

    Pullup/Close grip chinup (8 × 2 and 5 × 2)

    Chinup with towel/Archer pullup/ Assisted OAP

    Assisted OA inverted row/ Inverted row with towel

    Upside down pullup

    OA hang

    OA scapular pullup

    Front lever/planche progressions

    Day 2, push: Incline pushup (4 × 20)

    Pushup (2 × 15)

    Diamond pushup (2 × 10)

    Assisted OA pushup

    Assisted OA/diamond decline pushup

    Straight bar dip/Dip

    Archer straight bar dip/Archer dip

    Day 3, legs+core: Squat (3 × 20)

    Split squat (2 × 15)

    Pistol squat

    OL calf raise (2×20)

    Sumo squat hold

    Plank (2 × 40s)

    L-sit

    Frogstand

    Side plank

    Hollow hold

    OL glute bridge

    Reverse hollow hold

    Day 4: Rest

    "/" means I superset those exercises

    Unless indicated otherwise, I do the exercises in sets of 3×10, 2×8, 1×3-5, 1×60s, 2×45s, 3×30s or 4×15s, depending on how good I am at the exercise. With the exception of the assisted OA pushup, which I do in sets of 5×5 or 4×8 (I'm winding down the assistance)

    My apologies for the mess. This is my PPL bodyweight routine, thoughts?

    submitted by /u/Vsauce666
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    Calisthenics and over eating

    Posted: 26 Dec 2020 11:22 AM PST

    What's up all? So coming from a bodybuilding background, most view holidays as a chance to eat bad foods, load up on cals, and hit big numbers in the gym. That's great and all but I typically feel like garbage especially in the stomach when I do this. And considering you're lifting your body weight in calisthenics, do you guys see a dip in performance after a big cheat like the ones you typically have on holiday?

    submitted by /u/Boodergiz2
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    Noob Question: Working out with an arm injury?

    Posted: 26 Dec 2020 11:17 AM PST

    I'm eagerly looking forward to starting my journey into BWF in a few days. But last weekend I hyper-extended my elbow and definitely injured my muscle/tendons/ligaments in the region. I took care of it immediately with RICE and quickly moved from acute injury to slow healing mode. I have full general use but any weight beyond 10 pound lifting or a full stretch causes pain.

    My past experience with injuries, mostly in the form of hurt back muscles, I've found that pushing through it usually helps me strengthen and overcome the injury quicker if I keep exercising rather than becoming stagnant.

    But BWF seems very dependent on arm and back strengths. So this might seem like a stupid question, but at what point am I supposed to know that I'm good to start my workout?! I'm really not looking forward to becoming lethargic for another 6-8 weeks. But I am good at dealing with light pain to the point Should I just workout through light pain but stop if acute pain arises? Or should I just completely sit it out until all pain is wholly gone?

    submitted by /u/Nootherids
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    Parallel vs Straight Push Up Bar Position

    Posted: 26 Dec 2020 06:21 AM PST

    I know there is a difference between parallel and straight bar dips, but is there a difference in specific muscles being activated when doing push ups with the bars in straight position instead of the usual parallel orientation?

    submitted by /u/AndrogynousJack
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    Pistol Squat Progression and tight hip flexors

    Posted: 25 Dec 2020 06:42 PM PST

    I'm trying to work on my pistol Squat over this break, I have decent front flexibility and I can easily do a full deep squat no problem. I can also do a pistol Squat with my right leg but my left is a lot weaker and I am unable to do one there.

    However one thing I'm finding is that my hip flexors are extremely tight. I am a cyclist normally so I do spend a lot of time sitting even while exercising. So for example I can do a pistol Squat with my right leg, but when I extend my left leg straight ahead my left hip starts to cramp holding my leg up. I used to have decent side flexibility when I did taekwondo but not anymore as I haven't done that in years.

    Any recommendations on loosening up my hip flexors so my legs don't burn and working on that side flexibility? I do feel like loosening the hip flexors should help a lot in being able to extend my legs fully for better counterbalancing.

    submitted by /u/AliTheAce
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    Can neglecting to train shoulders hLIrt your pull ups?

    Posted: 26 Dec 2020 02:59 AM PST

    I have been training for a while now and sadly have neglected training my shoulders a little. I am doing pullups with pretty good form and I consistently gain strength on my lats and biceps, but I feel like my shoulders are dragging me down. Is it probably just my bad form or does it have to do with me not training my shoulders?

    edit: yes the bad grammar are intentional, seems automod deletes posts with the h-word and p-words on it

    submitted by /u/eatcoochie42069
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    Is my workout good for the results i want?

    Posted: 26 Dec 2020 02:20 AM PST

    two weeks ago i started working out at home, it was a very hard decision for me because before covid i used to only to go to the gym, only for one month though. i always want to get out of bed to do something, anything, to keep me in shape, there were no 3 consecutive days where i didn't do some type of elevated heart level exercise. biking, running, walking long distances and all that good stuff. but now im focused on something more serious, this time i want results. i started doing exercises only if my form was perfect, and if not i had to train myself to do so. only then get to more advance stuff, and i don't count reps, i do it on a 50%-50%-90% ( almost point of failure [meaning to the point my form fails, not when i can't pull another one, as i used to do before] ) effort, and i don't get fatigued after two and a half hours. now i feel like im doing something right, but is it really? and if it is how right is it? im mainly focusing on strength but if that means i can look better too can i say no. for some context, im 16, 5'5'' and 125 pounds, as a small guy i can see improvements way faster. ok so basically this is my workout: note that everyday is almost the same, all of them 3 reps 1- squad with calf raise 2- normal push ups 3 - boat hold 4 - a core exercise ( i switch in between a lot of variations throughout the week) then what i do is again another leg, arm and core exercise, typically more advance exercises, even negatives and positives of things i can't perfectly do yet (pistol squads for example), and some flexibility exercises. after that i end it with some burpees and just a calf raise. i rest one day and on the 7th day i test my strength with things such as handstand and things like that. also trying to count reps for things im focused on, such as push ups. but it's not a serious workout, just a a 30 minute checkout i guess, im planing to do this for one month then change things a little. so is it alright? could i improve something? im also dieting, no sugar or white bread and im trying my best to eat the right amount of calories.

    submitted by /u/FearAndDelight
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    I Take 2-3 Rest Days, But My Job Is Physical, What Do I Do?

    Posted: 25 Dec 2020 03:53 PM PST

    I do a maximum of 50 pull ups, 50 push ups, 50 squats, and 50 dips each every 2-3 (sometimes 4 depending on how sore I am) days in small reps of course, but I do them.

    I'm sore as fuck the day after every workout, but my job is physical, so I basically have to "workout" while sore at my job.

    Will this affect the muscle I'm trying to build, as in hinder progress?

    submitted by /u/Bluex619
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